The Ultimate Guide to Selling Art on Etsy

In today's digital age, opportunities to share and monetize creativity have expanded in ways once thought impossible. The world has witnessed the rise of platforms tailored for artists, allowing them to showcase their work to a global audience, engage with fans, and generate income from their passion. Among these platforms, Etsy stands out as a vibrant marketplace uniquely positioned for artists. So, if you have ever pondered over the question, "How can I sell my art and make it accessible to art lovers across the globe?" this guide on selling art on Etsy is precisely what you need.

Etsy, a haven for handcrafted goods and unique creations, is not just another online marketplace. It is a community. A community where authenticity, creativity, and individuality are celebrated every day. This sense of community is what has propelled Etsy to its remarkable stature in the online marketplace realm, making it an ideal platform for artists like you to showcase your masterpieces. Whether you specialize in oil paintings, digital designs, or even avant-garde AI art creations, Etsy is your stage. And like every stage, it requires preparation, knowledge, and strategies to ensure that the spotlight shines brightly on you and your work.

This guide's purpose is multifaceted. First and foremost, it is to introduce you to the nuances of how to sell art on Etsy, especially if you are a newcomer with a spark of enthusiasm but perhaps a lack of direction. From understanding what art sells on Etsy to the specifics of how to sell digital art on Etsy, every topic will be meticulously unpacked. Furthermore, as technology advances, newer art forms emerge. The selling of AI art on Etsy is one such domain that is gaining momentum, and this guide will ensure you are equipped to navigate this new frontier with confidence.

In addition to the "hows," understanding the "whats" is equally crucial. Are you curious about the best-selling art on Etsy? Or perhaps you've heard murmurs about fan art and wondered, "Can you sell fan art on Etsy?" Every query will be addressed—making sure you are not just informed but empowered.

By the end of this comprehensive journey, you will not only learn how to make digital art to sell on Etsy but also grasp the intricacies of pricing, marketing, and building a loyal customer base. Each and every component of selling art on Etsy, from setting up your store to utilizing the power of social media to accentuate sales, will be within your control.

In essence, this is more than just a guide; it is your companion. As you embark on this exciting voyage of selling art on Etsy, let this manual be the wind beneath your wings, propelling you to heights of success and artistic fulfillment. So, without further ado, let us delve deep and unravel the secrets of turning your creative passions into a lucrative endeavor on Etsy.

Embarking on the journey of selling art on Etsy can be both exhilarating and daunting. With its thriving community and vast global reach, Etsy has emerged as a dominant platform for artists. Whether you're diving into selling digital art on Etsy or showcasing traditional pieces, understanding the process is paramount. Even as newer forms like AI art are carving their niche, the timeless question remains: How to sell art on Etsy successfully? This section aims to guide you meticulously through every step, ensuring you grasp the nuances of what art sells on Etsy, how to make digital art to sell on Etsy, and more. So, let's commence this enlightening expedition.

Step 1: Register for an Etsy Account

To initiate your journey of selling art on Etsy, the first step involves creating an Etsy account. By visiting Etsy's main page, you'll find easy prompts to register. Ensure you provide accurate details and select “Sell on Etsy” to access seller-specific features. This account will be your portal to list artworks, interact with potential buyers, and manage orders.

Step 2: Craft an Engaging Shop Profile

Your shop's profile is your virtual storefront. Here, it's vital to convey your artistic persona and brand. Incorporate high-quality images, a compelling shop story, and details about your artistry. Remember, a well-crafted profile builds trust and attracts more buyers keen on buying the best-selling art on Etsy.

Step 3: List Your Artworks

Once your shop is set up, it's time to list your art. This includes uploading high-resolution images, crafting engaging descriptions, and setting appropriate prices. If you're exploring how to sell digital art on Etsy, ensure you specify that buyers will receive a digital file detailing its format and resolution.

Step 4: Understand Pricing and Fees

Understanding Etsy's fee structure is essential. Factor in listing fees, transaction fees, and payment processing fees when pricing your art. Additionally, consider the cost of materials, your time, and market demand when determining the selling price of your artwork.

Step 5: Promote Your Art on Social Media

Harness the power of social platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and Pinterest. Sharing your creations, posting behind-the-scenes content, and engaging with your audience can significantly boost traffic to your Etsy shop—leading to increased sales.

Step 6: Manage Customer Relations and Feedback

Ensuring impeccable customer service is crucial. Promptly respond to inquiries, address concerns, and request reviews after successful transactions. Positive feedback enhances credibility and makes your artwork stand out amongst the best-selling art on Etsy.

Step 7: Explore Advanced Features and Analytics

Etsy offers insights into shop performance, traffic sources, and customer behavior. By understanding these analytics, you can refine your strategies, optimize listings, and tailor your art to what sells on Etsy.

Step 8: Abide by Etsy's Guidelines and Policies

To maintain a flourishing shop, it's essential to familiarize yourself with Etsy's rules and regulations. This includes understanding the platform's stance on topics like "Can you sell fan art on Etsy?" and making sure all listings comply with Etsy's guidelines.

Step 9: Package and Ship Physical Artwork

For traditional artists, the shipping process is paramount. Use sturdy packaging to prevent damage, and consider adding personal touches like thank-you notes. Proper packaging and timely shipping enhance buyer trust and satisfaction.

Step 10: Innovate and Evolve Continuously

The art realm on Etsy is dynamic. From selling AI art on Etsy to exploring new themes and mediums, continuous innovation will keep your shop fresh, appealing, and ahead of competitors.

Successfully selling art on Etsy is a blend of artistry, strategy, and dedication. As we've journeyed through the essential steps, from setting up your shop to understanding what art sells on Etsy, the path ahead is clearer. Remember, the key lies in continuous learning, adapting, and creating. Whether it's mastering how to sell digital art on Etsy or navigating the intriguing world of selling AI art on Etsy, stay passionate, stay inspired, and success will undoubtedly find its way to you.

Diving into the world of Etsy, you might be brimming with enthusiasm about showcasing your digital masterpieces. While selling art on Etsy in its traditional form is an adventure on its own, selling digital art is a unique ballgame. In this fast-evolving digital era, you have the chance to share your creations instantly with buyers around the world. But how to sell digital art on Etsy? How do you ensure that your creations don't just get lost in the vast sea of listings? From understanding the intricacies of listing digital files to figuring out what digital art sells on Etsy best, this guide has got you covered. Let’s unravel the step-by-step process tailored specifically to your needs.

Step 1: Familiarize Yourself With Digital Art Guidelines

Etsy has specific guidelines for selling digital items. Ensure you familiarize yourself with these rules. This foundational knowledge will guide you in listing, selling, and ensuring customer satisfaction.

Step 2: Set Up Your Digital Storefront

Just like your physical art storefront, your digital one needs attention. Highlight in your shop profile that you specialize in digital art, shedding light on your unique techniques, inspirations, and the value digital art brings to customers.

Step 3: Optimize Digital Art Listings

When listing digital art, be precise. Specify the file format, dimensions, resolution, and any other pertinent details. Provide previews of the art, ensuring watermarks to protect against unauthorized use.

Step 4: Price Your Digital Creations Competitively

Pricing digital art can be tricky. Research the platform to see what digital art sells on Etsy within your niche. Factor in the time, effort, and uniqueness of your piece when setting a price.

Step 5: Offer Detailed Download Instructions

Remember, not every buyer will be tech-savvy. Provide clear, step-by-step download and usage instructions for your digital art. This will enhance the customer experience and reduce potential queries or issues.

Step 6: Engage With Potential Customers

Building rapport with your audience is vital. Answer questions promptly, ask for feedback, and ensure that your customers have a smooth experience when purchasing and downloading.

Step 7: Promote Your Digital Listings Actively

Harness the power of social media to showcase your digital creations. Engage in community discussions related to digital art and share snippets of your work to entice potential buyers.

Step 8: Monitor and Adjust Based on Feedback

Feedback is invaluable. If customers suggest improvements or highlight issues, act on them. This iterative process will only enhance your shop's reputation and sales.

Step 9: Stay Abreast With Digital Art Trends

The digital art realm is dynamic. Continuously research to understand what digital art is trending and adapt your offerings accordingly to stay ahead of the curve.

Step 10: Ensure Ethical Practices

While selling digital art, be wary of copyright issues, especially if venturing into realms like fan art. Always ensure your creations are original or you have the necessary permissions.

Your journey in the world of selling digital art on Etsy is bound to be an exciting one, filled with learning and growth. By following these meticulously laid-out steps, you're not just listing digital art; you're curating an experience for your buyers. As you navigate the intricacies of how to make digital art to sell on Etsy, remember to stay true to your unique style. Every piece you create, and list is a reflection of your passion and creativity. So, embrace this digital revolution, make your mark, and watch as the world appreciates and celebrates your digital masterpieces on Etsy.

Walking through the digital corridors of Etsy, you will soon realize it's an expansive canvas painted with an array of diverse artworks from artisans across the globe. The age-old question for newcomers is often, "What art sells on Etsy?" To simplify this for you, we've delved deep into the platform's artistic alleys, extracting insights on the types of art that not only catch the eye but also resonate with buyers. From digital creations to traditional masterpieces, from the abstract to the hyper-realistic, this guide will lead you through the art realms that thrive on Etsy—complete with examples of renowned Etsy brands that have mastered their craft.

1. Digital Prints

Digital art, especially prints, has seen a surge on Etsy. Buyers love the convenience of instant downloads and the ability to print at their desired size. Brands like 'PrintableZoe' and 'LittleEmmasFlowers' offer vibrant digital prints, catering to diverse aesthetic tastes—from minimalist to abstract.

2. Hand-painted Portraits

A timeless favorite, hand-painted portraits capture the essence of subjects with a personal touch. Artists like 'LenaCoxStudio' offer custom portraits, turning photographs into painted memories that last a lifetime.

3. Illustrations and Customized Sketches

Custom illustrations, be it for book covers, family sketches, or whimsical scenes, remain popular. Shops like 'WhenGuineaPigsFly' offer intricate illustrations that cater to specific niches, showcasing the power of targeted artistry.

4. Jewelry Art

Etsy is a haven for jewelry artisans. Handcrafted pieces, be it made of clay, metal, or semi-precious stones, entice buyers seeking unique adornments. Brands like 'MajaOlender' merge art with jewelry, offering exquisite pieces that double as wearable art.

5. Sculpture and Ceramics

Three-dimensional art, like sculptures and ceramics, brings tactile pleasure to buyers. Renowned brands such as 'BlueFireStudio' present ceramic pieces that seamlessly blend functionality with artistic flair.

6. Photography Prints

Landscape shots, cityscapes, or thematic photo series, photographers find their audience on Etsy. Shops like 'EyePoetryPhotography' have amassed followers, offering curated collections of evocative imagery.

7. AI Art

With technology intertwining with art, AI-generated pieces are making waves. Sellers who master this fusion, such as 'DeepArtImages,' provide unique pieces that push traditional artistic boundaries.

8. Fan Art

While treading carefully due to copyright concerns, fan art has its niche, celebrating popular culture, movies, and more. Shops like 'KinkoWhite' have mastered the art of celebrating fandoms while adhering to platform guidelines.

Etsy, with its pulsating vibrancy and boundless creativity, offers a sanctuary for artists of every ilk. As you venture to decipher what art sells on Etsy, this guide serves as your compass. From the immediacy of digital prints to the tactile delight of ceramics, there's a space for every art form. However, as brands like 'PrintableZoe' or 'BlueFireStudio' exemplify, it's not just about creating; it's about connecting, resonating, and sharing a part of your soul. So, as you carve your niche, remember it's this very personal touch that transforms mere pieces into best-selling art on Etsy.

The future is here, and it's fascinatingly artistic. Artificial Intelligence, once the realm of science fiction, now brushes strokes on the canvas of our reality. As a confluence of technology and creativity, AI art has taken the world by storm. You might be wondering: How does one venture into selling AI art on Etsy? Delving into this innovative niche requires a unique blend of technological know-how and artistic sensibility. The marketplace is ripe, with an audience eager for the next big thing. If you're intrigued by how to sell AI art on Etsy, this guide will be your lighthouse, illuminating the path of merging algorithms with aesthetics.

Step 1: Understand AI Art Technology

AI art is generated using algorithms, often involving neural networks and deep learning. Familiarize yourself with software like DeepDream, Artbreeder, or Runway ML to create unique pieces. This foundational understanding will shape your AI art journey.

Step 2: Create Unique AI Artwork

Harness AI tools to produce distinctive artworks. It's essential to integrate your artistic vision with technology, ensuring that each creation, while machine-assisted, carries a touch of human creativity.

Step 3: Comprehend Legal and Ethical Aspects

AI-generated art can tread murky waters regarding copyrights. Familiarize yourself with intellectual property rights concerning AI. Ensure all pieces sold have clear ownership rights and avoid potential pitfalls.

Step 4: Optimize Listings for AI Art

Your Etsy listing should clearly mention that the piece is AI-generated. Provide details about the creation process, the software used, and the inspiration behind the final artwork. Transparency is vital to build trust.

Step 5: Set Competitive Prices

AI art is a relatively new domain on Etsy. Research competitors, gauge market demand, and price your artwork accordingly, considering both the technological and artistic input.

Step 6: Engage and Educate Your Audience

Given its novelty, you might need to educate potential buyers about AI art. Use your shop story, listings, or blog posts to elucidate the process and value of AI-generated art.

Step 7: Seek Feedback and Iterate

AI art is evolving. Seek feedback from buyers and fellow artists. Use insights to refine your techniques, ensuring your art remains fresh and appealing.

Step 8: Promote Beyond Etsy

Given the unique nature of AI art, platforms like tech blogs, AI forums, or art exhibitions can be potent promotional avenues. Cast your net wide to capture a diverse audience.

Step 9: Keep Abreast With AI Art Trends

AI technology is rapidly advancing. Stay updated with the latest software, techniques, and trends in the AI art domain to maintain a cutting-edge portfolio.

Step 10: Foster a Community

Engage with other AI artists and enthusiasts. Building a community fosters collaboration, learning, and sharing—enriching your AI art journey on Etsy.

Selling AI art on Etsy is an exhilarating fusion of the past, present, and future. It is where time-honored artistry meets futuristic technology. While challenges abound in navigating this novel terrain, the rewards—both artistic and financial—can be immense. As you embark on this quest of selling AI art on Etsy, let your creativity be the compass and technology be the vessel. The horizon is vast, and the potential is boundless. Dive in, innovate, and lead the vanguard of the AI art revolution on Etsy.

Etsy, a thriving marketplace for creatives and artisans, buzzes with myriad art forms, each speaking its unique language of expression. However, as a curious mind eager to discern the cream of the crop, you might wonder, "What is the best-selling art on Etsy?" Every piece of art tells a story, but some narratives resonate more powerfully—drawing audiences en masse. Whether it's the universality of their appeal, their novelty, or sheer artistic brilliance, certain art forms consistently rise to the top in sales and acclaim on Etsy. In this exploration, let’s delve into the best-selling art on Etsy, spotlighting exemplary Etsy brands that have etched their names in this hall of fame.

1. Custom Portraits

With a blend of personal touch and artistic flair, custom portraits, whether digitally rendered or hand-painted, have found a special place in buyers' hearts. Brands like 'ArtByAlicia' capture personal moments and transform them into timeless keepsakes, making them perennial best-sellers.

2. Digital Printables

The allure of instant accessibility makes digital printables a hot favorite. They span from inspirational quotes to abstract designs. 'InstantArtistry' is a notable brand offering diverse printable art pieces that resonate with varied aesthetic inclinations.

3. Personalized Jewelry Art

Bridging the gap between art and adornment, personalized jewelry, often engraved or handcrafted with a message or symbolism, stands out. Etsy shops like 'GemsByJen' craft bespoke pieces, fusing emotion with elegance.

4. Home Décor Illustrations

Illustrations that enhance living spaces, whether minimalist line drawings or colorful scenes are in high demand. 'DecorDreamsArt' stands out in offering illustrations that transform homes into artistic havens.

5. Ceramic and Pottery Art

Handcrafted ceramic mugs, plates, and decorative items combine functionality with art. Shops like 'ClayBouquetShop' have garnered acclaim for their intricate designs and impeccable craftsmanship.

6. AI Art

As discussed earlier, AI art—being at the crossroads of technology and art—is gaining traction. Brands such as 'NeuralDreams' have carved a niche, offering art pieces that are a testament to the blend of machine precision and human creativity.

7. Handmade Stickers

In the age of customization, handmade stickers, be it for laptops or planners, have seen soaring popularity. Etsy brands like 'StickyWonders' provide an array of designs catering to diverse tastes.

The tapestry of art on Etsy is vast and varied. As we've ventured into the domain of best-selling art on Etsy, it's evident that while trends play a role, it's the marriage of creativity, authenticity, and resonance that truly seals the deal. Brands such as 'InstantArtistry' and 'ArtByAlicia' serve as beacons, proving that when art speaks to the heart, it's bound to find its rightful place in the best-sellers' list. As you navigate your Etsy journey, remember that while the compass points towards the best-selling art, it's the heartbeats of genuine creativity and connection that drive sales and lasting impressions.

The digital realm is revolutionizing art. As tactile brushes and canvases evolve into styluses and screens, the realm of digital art unfurls its vast horizon. If you're feeling the creative itch and are wondering how to make digital art to sell on Etsy, you're poised at the cusp of an exciting journey. Etsy offers a bustling platform for artists to showcase their work, but the process of creation, digitization, and marketing requires a nuanced approach. This guide, designed for the budding digital artist in you, elucidates the steps to craft, present, and sell your digital masterpieces on Etsy. Let's dive deep into the world of pixels, palettes, and profits.

Step 1: Invest in the Right Tools

Digital art creation requires software like Adobe Illustrator or Procreate and hardware like graphic tablets. Choose tools that align with your budget and art style, ensuring quality and user-friendliness.

Step 2: Learn the Basics of Digital Art

Familiarize yourself with digital art techniques. Online courses or tutorials can aid in understanding layers, brushes, and other essential tools. Your foundation is pivotal for producing captivating art.

Step 3: Define Your Unique Style

Every artist has a distinct voice. Experiment with various styles, be it realism, abstract, or surrealism. Establishing a recognizable style can set your art apart on Etsy.

Step 4: Create High-quality Artworks

Quality trumps quantity. Dedicate time to perfecting each piece, ensuring high resolution, and attention to detail. This diligence is reflected in customer reviews and sales.

Step 5: Ensure Originality

While inspiration is valuable, your artwork should be original. Avoid copyright infringements and always bring a fresh perspective to ensure authenticity.

Step 6: Optimize for Digital Sales

For selling digital art on Etsy, format your artwork for easy downloading. Offer different sizes and ensure files are compatible for various devices or print purposes.

Step 7: Draft a Clear Description

Your Etsy listing should detail the artwork's inspiration, the tools used, and any customization options. Transparency fosters trust with potential buyers.

Step 8: Price Your Artwork Appropriately

Research other digital artworks on Etsy. Factor in your time, effort, and uniqueness when pricing, ensuring it's competitive yet fair.

Step 9: Promote Your Digital Art

Employ blogs, social media, or collaborations to garner attention for your Etsy store. Building an audience outside Etsy can drive traffic and boost sales.

Step 10: Engage With Your Audience

Respond promptly to queries, seek feedback, and encourage reviews. Building a rapport with buyers can lead to repeat sales and referrals.

Embarking on the journey of creating and selling digital art on Etsy can be both exhilarating and challenging. Each step, from tool selection to engaging with buyers, is a stitch in the tapestry of your digital art venture. Remember, while trends ebb and flow, authenticity, dedication, and connection remain timeless. As you chart your course in the vast ocean of Etsy's digital art, let these steps be your North Star, guiding you towards artistic fulfillment and commercial success.

Embarking on the entrepreneurial journey of selling art on Etsy can be a voyage of discovery, filled with excitement and trepidation in equal measure. Your art is the essence of your soul, a visual encapsulation of your experiences, emotions, and aspirations. But as you ponder on how to select art to sell on Etsy, it's essential to strike a harmonious balance between your artistic inclinations and market demand. In this guide, tailored for the aspiring artist in you, we'll unravel the steps to cherry-pick art pieces that resonate with Etsy's discerning audience, ensuring that your artworks not only shine but also sell.

Step 1: Research Current Art Trends on Etsy

Begin by immersing yourself in Etsy's art landscape. Observe what's trending, which art categories are gaining traction, and what resonates with buyers. This insight will guide your selection process.

Step 2: Analyze Your Existing Portfolio

Evaluate your current art collection. Highlight pieces that reflect current trends, have received appreciation in past exhibitions or social media, and resonate with the Etsy demographic.

Step 3: Understand Your Target Audience

Dive deep into the demographics of Etsy buyers. Knowing your audience—their preferences, age group, and purchasing behavior can fine-tune your art selection.

Step 4: Prioritize Unique and Original Art

Etsy values originality. Opt for artworks that have a distinct style or tell a unique story. These pieces often stand out and attract buyers.

Step 5: Factor in Production Costs

If you're reproducing art, consider production costs. Choose artworks that can be replicated without compromising quality and still be priced competitively.

Step 6: Gauge the Practicality of Shipping

For physical art pieces, think about their size, weight, and fragility. It's advisable to select artworks that can be packaged and shipped with ease and minimal risk of damage.

Step 7: Seek Feedback From Trusted Peers

Share a shortlist of your selected artworks with fellow artists, friends, or mentors. Constructive feedback can provide valuable perspectives on what might sell well.

Step 8: Test the Waters With a Few Listings

Before committing fully, list a few artworks on Etsy. Monitor how they perform in terms of views, favorites, and sales to guide future selections.

Step 9: Continuously Re-evaluate Your Selection

The art world is dynamic. Regularly assess your Etsy listings' performance and be ready to adapt your selection based on feedback and sales metrics.

Choosing the right art pieces to sell on Etsy can seem like a daunting task, given the platform's vast and varied artistic landscape. However, by systematically following the steps outlined, you can demystify the selection process. Your art is an extension of yourself, and Etsy provides the stage for it to shine. But like any performance, understanding the audience, setting the right tone, and continuous refinement are crucial. As you curate your art for Etsy, let these steps guide you, ensuring that every piece you select not only showcases your talent but also finds its perfect home.

Navigating the vast marketplace of Etsy, especially for an artist, is akin to wandering through a vibrant art festival. Everywhere you turn, there's a burst of creativity, a splash of color, and a story waiting to be told. But how do you ensure that amidst this kaleidoscope of talent, your art not only catches the eye but also results in successful sales? The answer lies in understanding the nuances of selling art on Etsy, and fine-tuning your approach accordingly. In this guide, you'll uncover actionable tips, designed to give your artistic enterprise a competitive edge, ensuring that your masterpieces don't just adorn Etsy's digital gallery, but also find their rightful patrons.

Tip 1: Optimize Your Listings With SEO

Understanding Etsy's search algorithm can position your art effectively. Integrate relevant keywords in your title, tags, and description, making your art easily discoverable to potential buyers.

Tip 2: Offer Multiple Price Points

Diversify your art offerings. By providing a range of price points, from prints to originals, you cater to a wider audience—enhancing sales potential.

Tip 3: Use High-quality Images

An image speaks volumes. Ensure that your art photographs are clear, well-lit, and showcase your piece from various angles. Quality visuals can significantly influence buying decisions.

Tip 4: Craft Engaging Descriptions

Narrate the story behind your art. Engaging descriptions, detailing the inspiration, medium, and creation process can connect with buyers on an emotional level.

Tip 5: Foster Customer Engagement

Building a relationship with your buyers can lead to repeat sales. Respond promptly to inquiries, thank buyers for purchases, and encourage feedback.

Tip 6: Offer Promotions Periodically

Occasional discounts or bundled offers can attract more visitors to your store. Such promotions can convert potential buyers who are on the fence.

Tip 7: Stay Updated With Market Trends

Art is ever-evolving. Stay updated with current trends, adapting your offerings accordingly. This ensures that your art remains relevant and in demand.

Tip 8: Encourage Reviews

Positive reviews bolster your store's credibility. After a sale, kindly request buyers to leave a review, emphasizing its importance for your store's growth.

Tip 9: Leverage Social Media

Promote your Etsy store and art pieces on platforms like Instagram, Pinterest, or Facebook. Social media can effectively drive traffic and increase sales.

Tip 10: Attend Etsy Webinars and Workshops

Etsy often organizes webinars and workshops for sellers. Participate actively. These sessions can provide invaluable insights, tips, and strategies to boost sales.

The digital bazaar that is Etsy holds immense potential for artists, but the key to unlocking this potential lies in more than just talent. It's about strategizing, understanding the market, and consistently refining your approach. The tips outlined above are not just strategies; they're the brushstrokes that can turn your Etsy store into a masterpiece. As you immerse yourself in the field of selling art on Etsy, let these tips be the colors on your palette, directing you towards a canvas overflowing with satisfaction and success. The world is eager to see your art; now make sure they don't miss it.